Teresa Malcolm, MD, FACOG, MBA, CPE, CPXP, ACC Founder of Master Physician Leaders: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Teresa Malcolm, MD, FACOG, MBA, CPE, CPXP, ACC Founder of Master Physician Leaders: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

John Shufeldt:
Hello everybody and welcome to another edition of Entrepreneur RX, where we help health care professionals own their future.

John Shufeldt:
Hello everybody, and welcome back to Entrepreneur RX. This week, I'm really excited to talk to Dr. Teresa Malcolm, or Terri she's called. She is a board member at the American Association for Physician Leadership and founder and CEO at Master Physician Leaders, are committed to partnering with physicians throughout a journey of self-discovery. Terri, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
Thanks, John. It's really a pleasure to be here.

John Shufeldt:
I'm excited that I've never talked to a physician coach before, and you can probably tell that already, but I've never talked to a physician coach before.

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
You won't be the first, you will not be the first person. So it's OK. I'm happy to share whatever I can to enlighten you about coaching.

John Shufeldt:
All right, perfect. But before you do that, let's talk a little bit about your career. How did this all start? And I know you're into OB-GYN, but kind of back it up to when you were a kid and you decided to be a physician and take us through a little bit of a bio?

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
Sure. And you know, you were kind of spot on. It started for me in my childhood, so it did start as early as the age of six that I knew I wanted to become a physician. Yeah, yeah. You feel this, feel kind of the same way about that. And I had always really had a passion for reading and for really exploring deeper. And my aunt, who was a licensed nurse at the time, would see me often when we would go visit my extended family in Georgia. And she said that I reminded her of the physicians that she worked with at the hospital because she always saw them reading and always heard them asking questions and just really exploring more. And so I think that's what really planted the seed in my mind that, OK, I could be a doctor and what is this doctor thing? And then as I grew older and we're just exposed to more subjects within my education, science was something I absolutely connected with. It just made sense to me how things were coming together. And so it was really that passion of wanting to explore things on a deeper level, particularly within the sciences. And then, of course, just wanting to really help people. I always saw that whatever I did when I ultimately grew up, that it would be in service to others. And I think that becoming a doctor just absolutely made, it made perfect sense to me. And so that's, I just remember as a little girl saying I'm going to be a doctor and was like, absolutely steadfast on that.

John Shufeldt:
That's actually, so yeah, I was six as well. And I remember my early physician, you know, doesn't matter I barely passed school, but I'm going to be a physician. You know, the facts that are matter. OK, so where did you go for undergrad and then you went to Tulane Medical School.

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
So I went to undergrad at UC San Diego. So that's in La Jolla, California. Not a school that's known for its college athletics. But I'm still going to give a little shout-out to the Tritons and definitely knew going into that. I wanted to be pre-med, so I picked the college that was known for really producing physicians and went that whole pre-med track. So I went through Revelle College and then landed at Tulane for medical school, which was, you know, just like an absolute dream come true. That was my top choice. I hadn't gotten into medical school the first time around, so there was a little bit of like, OK, is this really going to happen? You've been on this path. You've had this dream for so long. Is this really going to pan out like you wanted to? So when Tulane actually called and said you're in, it was like, OK, now it's all coming together. And so it was just a great experience going to Tulane, which was a whole new part of the country that I hadn't seen before. I mean, I visited the South before, but if you've ever been to New Orleans, I think it's its own unique city. And so it was just so great to be able to go there in my early twenties with really no responsibilities other than my dog and just really immerse myself into the culture and into the environment and study medicine.

John Shufeldt:
That's awesome. Okay. So when in medical school did you pick OB-GYN?

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
I picked OB-GYN in my fourth year, and honestly, there was a lot of, I guess I would, I'm not going to say there's necessarily pushback, but I just remember that mentors that I looked up to within the field did ask me to really question, is this what you want to do? Because of the rigor of the subspecialty, because I think of where I was in overall in my age, my husband and I were not married at the time, but we, you know, I met him in New Orleans. He was also in a graduate program. We fell in love there, we got engaged and, so we hadn't gotten married and started a family, so it was just kind of thinking about what are your long-term goals professionally, what are your long-term goals personally? And how do you see all of this being able to integrate with? You know, at that time, we weren't talking about work-life balance or work-life integration, but it was more a focus of if you're going to have a family, a woman is typically the caretaker and is typically the primary parent in that raising of the family. How do you see yourself being able to kind of manage that along with the demands of being an obstetrician and gynecologist where babies come when they come? You can't always schedule that. So I just knew that I loved the complexity of the subspecialty. I love the diversity of the subspecialty and I loved women's health. I loved going to the O.R. I loved being one-on-one with patients in a patient exam room. I loved being in the clinic. I mean, I just loved that I could really function in all different settings, and it was always about helping women to live healthier lives.

John Shufeldt:
And then, OK, so you do that, you finish residency. And then at some point, you said, OK, I'm going to be an entrepreneur, I want to go back, get an MBA, what was that timeline like?

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
That was a few years out of residency training, so I was hired, coming straight out of my residency, by a large health care system as an employed physician. And working as an employed physician I really did not know anything about the business aspect of medicine, and that's not to say that employed physicians don't know that, but I'll just say my journey did not include any business background at all. And we had a meeting very, very, very early on in the evolution of this medical group with the administration where there were questions about how do we make your practice more profitable? What are some of the changes that you would advise to take this from a revenue-losing to a revenue-producing? And I was completely flabbergasted by that. I was just very surprised like, where is this coming from? We're all very busy. We're very productive. We're providing great care. We're performing at a very high level. But by their perspective, we weren't doing that and there just was a disconnect for me in terms of the conversations that we were having. Our goals were the same, but how we were discussing achieving those was very different. And I, you know, again, just kind of going back to my desire to learn more and to inquire, it led me down a path of there's a whole language out there that I don't understand, and that's that business aspect. And that's when I decided to go back to school and pursue my MBA. So it was a dual thing that I did while working full time really as an OB-GYN, I was also going to school online, at night, on the weekends, early in the morning to get my MBA.

John Shufeldt:
Very good. Well that's, I mean, that alone is impressive, it's a, you know, I loved getting an MBA. It was super relevant for me, and the education I thought, well, this is easy but medical school was, but it was really it just was super impactful. But you're right, working full time, in school full time. It's a juggling act. Did you have kids at that point?

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
We did. Yeah, we at that point had three children and we have a singleton and then we have a set of twins and our twin boys are twenty-two months younger than our oldest son. So everybody was, I think everybody was under the age of four when I started, and I definitely had guilt complex in going back to school at that time. But I do remember the nurses who were so supportive of me. I mean, and my husband pushed me 100 percent to do. He was like, go for it, do it. I will support you in this. I know that you can do this. We will take care of the family. And I remember just being up really late, exhausted, like literally typing up on the deck of labor and delivery and just thinking, like, why am I doing this? This is just crazy. This is absolutely bananas. It's one o'clock in the morning. I'm sitting up like writing papers or trying to enter my responses in the online chat. And the nurses just said, you know, Dr. Malcolm, this is the best time that you could do this. There will never be the ideal time. Your children are still very young. You'll be glad that you accomplished this and put this in your library much later on. So just keep going, keep pursuing. And in hindsight, I completely agree with them.

John Shufeldt:
Yeah, really excellent advice. OK, so now after an MBA, did you take a leadership role or did you start down the path of your coaching right away?

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
No, I didn't start coaching right away. I started in leadership, and I think I kind of, you know, from my team was with getting pushed to the front of interacting with administration a little bit more and being the voice for the group. And as I got exposed to more physician leadership and wanting to really engage with others about how are we making decisions that directly impact those of us who are delivering the care? And that again just created a whole another spark for me. I just became very passionate about being involved in those conversations, being involved in that decision making and hoping to provide another perspective to the table that maybe wasn't always there. Sometimes the physicians aren't always involved in that decision-making. And I also just thought my perspective, my history, my cultural background being a woman, being a woman of color, you know, being a black female physician, I thought I had something very unique to offer and to contribute that could help others in how they're delivering care.

John Shufeldt:
Do you see parallels between your role and skill set as a physician and your role and skill set as an entrepreneur? In other words, is it relatable and translatable?

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
I do think there's a lot that my background as a physician has definitely helped me in my background as an entrepreneur. And by that same respect, I will say that there are aspects of myself as a physician that I've had to unwire and then rewire as a physician as well. I think that what we bring that's very transferable as physicians are, I think we bring our commitment, dedication, the perseverance. I think and I absolutely would say, I think the level of knowledge that we bring, I think that that is very, very helpful to us in becoming entrepreneurs. We are very committed to whatever it is that we do, and we are also very committed to becoming subject matter experts in what it is that we do. So I think that that has been very transferable and has been very useful. What I think I had to do a little bit of unwiring and rewiring around is that unlike becoming a physician, becoming an entrepreneur is not a prescriptive path. It's not very easy from point A to point B whereas I think with and becoming a doctor like, there's a path that's already been laid out for you. You know, if you take these classes then, and you perform at this level and you take this test, you take the MCAT, you will get into medical school. And then if you take these, you know, you're going to take these classes in medical school, if you perform at this level, then you can get into your subspecialty of choice. So I think it's a very defined path, whereas in entrepreneurship, it's not like that. There's so much that is uncertain and is ambiguous, and that is unknown. And so we're constantly kind of testing things out. We're kind of testing the waters. We're kind of putting the proof of concept out there and having to adjust and adapt given the feedback that we receive.

John Shufeldt:
So let me ask you this. So people are, I'm looking at your website, I think physicians are going to look at you and this always strikes me as being kind of funny, but they're going to look at you and say, well, I mean, you know, she had it easy, she's charismatic and brilliant and beautiful and she's in a great relationship. You know, where's the struggle in that? So let me go to the end. Where have you struggled? Because I think people look at you and said, you know, she makes, she makes it look easy.

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
Oh, well, I guess first, thank you. I mean, I appreciate that, and I hope that my journey and my path can be an inspiration for others that this is possible. I would say that what I've been able to experience, whatever success I now have today is because of the assistance and the guidance and the mentorship from a whole village of people who really have embraced me, wrapped their arms around me, have shepherded me down this path versus another path and have also given me plenty of runway to make mistakes and to learn from those mistakes too. So this has not been easy by any means. There's been a lot of disappointment. There's been a lot of questioning. It might, is this really what I meant to do? Is this the right thing? And I have really learned to take all of those setbacks and all of those disappointments as opportunities for me to get better and to really learn from them. I will say a few years ago, I didn't have that perspective. A few years ago, it was like, it's the end of the world, somebody rejected me, somebody said no, like I put all of this work into this proposal and they've said, thank you, but no thank you. And that was just they may as well just said, like, you're horrible, go away, never come back again. But with that, no, I've been able to now realize, you know what? My message or my delivery is not for you. And that's OK. And it doesn't define who I am, and it doesn't mean that I'm any less worthy. It just means it's not for you. And so I need to keep putting myself out there to find that person who really connects and resonates with my message.

John Shufeldt:
Yeah, it's very market... You know, it's very, the obstacle is the way. It's you build upon them. And I actually got to the point where I like the obstacles because it means it's harder for everybody and you don't want it to be easy because where's the fun in that journey? Ok, so let's go to, you became a certified coach?

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
Mmhmm.

John Shufeldt:
What is that process like?

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
Yeah, that process was going through rigorous coaching training. So as I was introduced into physician coaching through a leadership program that I was part of, and otherwise, my only exposure to coaching had been athletics and having a coach who would blow a whistle and put out a whole plan of action for you, and you would follow that plan. It was their way or the highway. That's what I thought a coach was supposed to do, and I realized that coaching was really more about focusing on what my goals were and helping me to achieve those goals, helping me to gain a new level of self-awareness and take steps in order to achieve those goals. So I did my research and found coaching programs that I thought really aligned with what I wanted to do as a coach. And so my focus really is on that leadership development, it's on professional development, not so much performance development. I think there's a real place for that, but that's about getting people who are underperforming to perform at the expected level. I'm really working with those individuals who have a desire to kind of move beyond an area of just kind of being stuck in their professional life to become the leader that they know that they can be and partnering with the organizations to help them do that to create that kind of organizational change from within.

John Shufeldt:
So I love that concept. I've coached physicians not as you do, but just more than the managerial role for 30 years. And, you know, I always think there are some that are completely uncoachable and there are some that definitely it's they're like a flower. You put a little bit of water on them and embrace them and they just blossom. And I really like the idea that you're coaching people who want to become leaders because you're right, that's so different. You know, they already have, the fact that they even call you in some respects, they're already halfway there. You know, they have the initiative and they're willing to back it up, paying you, I assume, to help you impart, and allow you to impart your knowledge to them. What are some of the profiles and kind of or are there any profiles of physicians who are reaching out to you? Is a young versus old? Men versus women? What's the diversity?

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
And there is diversity. So I would say for one, most of my clients are really through the organization itself. So I partner my company partners directly with organizations to provide coaching to their physicians within. And so they're looking to help their physicians take it to another level, elevate their leadership skills, their leadership development. And so my clients do range in age. I mean, of course, everybody is an adult and they're old enough to have finished their residency training and have practice for a little bit of time. But a lot of them may be what we consider traditional physician leaders and since they have a leadership title, but I don't focus on what their title is. While they may have that title, it's really more about that mindset. Do you see yourself and do you view yourself as a leader and how can I help you to be the leader that you know that you can be? How can I help you and really being that influencer in chief that you need to be? And so a lot of times my clients may have just moved into a new position. They may be in a position where they now have new responsibilities. It's been an expansion of their role or they have new projects or initiatives that they're trying to, that they're now trying to lead. Also, maybe they just kind of feel a little stuck like they've been trying something for a while and there's an area of struggle and they want some assistance so they can really thrive within the role that they, that they have.

John Shufeldt:
Have you identified kind of common physician denominators that become barriers to physicians? And if you would answer when you respond to the question, give me the male versus female, if you can categorize them, like what are the barriers male struggle with and what are the barriers female leaders or people, female, women who want to become leaders are struggling with and vice versa?

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
Yeah. So I think that's such a great question because there absolutely is a difference, I think, for women. There's a belief that you don't deserve what you have. There's that imposter syndrome belief that I didn't really earn this. Somebody gave this to me. I got this through my connections. They're going, they're going to find out that I really can't do what they've hired me to do. So that I mean, it is not exclusive to women. A lot of the research has been done around imposter syndrome that looked at women. It does extend to men as well. But I think that that's a little more of what I hear from my female physician clients is doubting themselves. Can I really do what has been asked of me and what's been expected of me as far as being a leader? In terms of their technical competence and skill set, hands down, they've got it. They believe in themself from that standpoint.

John Shufeldt:
Yeah, I've noticed the exact same thing with women, younger women leaders who I try to mentor. It's like, are you kidding? You are so far ahead of where I was on your EQ and their IQ, for that matter, but there are so far ahead of where I was at your age. I've always given this book to read called Confidence Code by Claire Shipman and Cathy Kay, I believe. And they interviewed all these really rock star women all over the world, and they also literally said exactly what you just said, but they all had imposter syndrome. I mean, they even mentioned Hillary Clinton. You know how this imposter syndrome, but how can she have it? And even, you know, I was if she has it and you know, everybody has to have it.

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
Yes, I agree. I think that you know, it's just really important for women to step in and own their greatness and really see themselves as being the remarkable individuals that they are. So, you know, I wouldn't say I spent a lot of time doing confidence-boosting, but we, you know, we do spend some time just doing some reframing, like just what's another way that you can reframe everything that you just said that's more positive and more uplifting and as motivating for you. As far as men, I think what I hear sometimes from men is the reluctance to ask for help. And when I don't want them to feel that there's any judgment or there's any bias because they've asked and I wouldn't say that what I provide is necessarily help. I'm your partner. I am there to partner with you in this and oftentimes I'm a mirror for them. I'm a place for you to just really put your think aloud. I call them your think aloud, so those are thoughts that you have that maybe you just never said aloud to anybody. I'm providing you with that safe space to be able to share all of those think alouds and get a response, if that's what you're looking for, get some direction if that's what you're looking for, give you an opportunity to do some modification to it, so that the impact that you're really trying to have actually does happen. And I think sometimes there's a reluctance for men that like, I don't need this. This is not something that there's a problem with such that or a problem that I have that I really need this. Coaching isn't always about a problem that you have. It's not always. Oftentimes, it's just helping you work through something and see things through a different lens or a different perspective than you hadn't considered before.

John Shufeldt:
It's already in your game. You know, I had the experience where I went through physician leadership, coaching year-long classes, and such. And, you know, I'm sure I had tons of problems. But at the end of the day, their goal was to, so I elevate my game, and everybody in there was these kinds of rock star people. They all went in there with, okay, what can I do to become even better? I mean, you know, world-class athletes have coaches and they have coaches for a reason. Have you noticed either an uptick or a downtick in your business because of moral injury, what people call physician burnout? I mean, do you find people saying, you know, I don't want to do this anymore? I'm burned out and drive patients or I want to be a leader, and that's the reason they're trying to angle into leadership positions?

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
No, I don't see that. And I think that's I would also say that's because it's not my real niche. So I know that there are amazing coaches out there who do and specifically physician coaches, who really do have an emphasis on physician burnout and well-being. And I love partnering together with them in that. I haven't seen that there are physicians who are moving out of patient care into leadership, necessarily because it's like, I just can't handle it or swing it, or I don't want to do this anymore so I'm going to move into this other aspect of being a doctor. Really what I see is those who have made a conscious decision to shift gears into full-time physician leadership or they have kind of risen through the ranks. They performed very well early on in their career and started getting volunteered, voluntold for certain projects. And now that they've really gotten more comfortable in it and got a real taste for it, or maybe it's 20 percent or 50 percent of their overall FTE status, they're moving into roles that require more leadership responsibilities and expansion of that.

John Shufeldt:
All right. So I'm going to hit you up for some free coaching right now.

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
Ok.

John Shufeldt:
And you're probably going, Oh my God, what's he going to ask? So I've always been concerned, so I manage a large group of physicians. They're wonderful people, they work on indigenous lands. And it's a great, really cool cultural company. But I have always had this fear that it's hard to manage physicians unless, A you're a physician and B you're still practicing because it's hard to say, well, you know, when I used to do this here's what we did. And I look at my, yeah, that was, you know, back in pre ... zone era. There, how is this helping me now, even it was a couple of years ago. I mean, I love practicing medicine, but one of the fears I've always had is managing physicians and then telling them, look, when I've had this experience, here's why I've approached it. And then the follow-up being, well, yeah, that was then. This is now. You're not relatable anymore. How do you address that?

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
Yeah. You know, I think that what might be a little different in the service that I provide is that I am not interested in managing them. I'm really interested in what their goals are and helping them to lead more effectively in that. So when I'm working together with a client, it's not about what I would do and I do hear that. So I think kind of going back to. I hear them ask me that, I'm going back to a question that you asked earlier about what is a difference between some of the male clients and female clients? I might hear a little more often from my male clients, well, what would you do? That's going to be one of the last things that they're going to hear from me. I want to hear what they really want to do. Like, let's brainstorm all possibilities first. And then if you really are still interested in what I would do, then I'll share. I'll share that with you. But it's not about what I think is the right thing for you or, you know, I think you like, let me put together a whole treatment plan for you, and then you just execute and you follow it. I'm really trying to tap into what's most important to you. Where do you want to prioritize? Where do you think you need to put your energy and your attention and your focus right now so that we can start making some of those small incremental steps to get you closer to what your goals are? So it's really not about what would Terri do in this situation. I think what does help them is the connection that they know I understand where they're at. And so they don't have to do a lot, we don't have to spend time explaining. I'm already in tune with you and I can understand what the struggle is, now let's figure out how we help you move through that struggle.

John Shufeldt:
Very good. I love that approach is, you know, really answering a question with a question and saying, basically, what you said earlier in the mirror. OK, so so last question, where do you see yourself kind of post-pandemic? And do you think the pandemic has? It's certainly, in my mind pointed out that we need more physician leaders. Where do you see your business and yourself post-pandemic if there ever is a post-pandemic?

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
Yeah, I know. I hope it comes to, trust me. Like that is my daily prayer that we one day can actually look behind this and say that was the pandemic, remember when? I think that for one like I think probably one of the things that are going to be most immediate is that I see master physician leaders having more of an in-person presence. So much of it is just remote. It's virtual right now. But I think a bigger, broader scale is what I really see is my company is now partnering even more, like even stronger partnerships, more partnerships with health care organizations to develop inclusive leaders, to develop inclusive physician leaders so that they can foster an environment where everyone can thrive and contribute fully to the delivery of culturally compassionate care. That's really where I want to take my company. That's the focus. And again, when I'm looking at the pandemic on the horizon, that's what I'd like to be able to say master physician leaders is doing.

John Shufeldt:
Okay, I lied, that wasn't the last question, because what you just said was really interesting to me and I totally identified with it. So about six years ago, I started working in indigenous lands and it blew me away of the disparities of health care on reservations versus in the inner city where I work. And it really opened my eyes up to this huge disparity of care between different ethnicities, different genders, and it's really made, it's really given me a mission for, like the last third of my career to try to address that, at least in indigenous lands. So I think your answer is spot on. We have to get to a place where everyone is treated with the utmost professionalism, compassion, and empathy, no matter what. Stop.

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
Absolutely. That's that is that's what keeps me motivated and driving every single day in this mission. And this is something that I want us to be locked, in lockstep doing. I mean, this is what I really consider is my passion, and I have been blessed and privileged to be given a platform to be able to do that. And coaching is my venue. It's just the venue by which I can really bring that to life. But I really want to see everybody as an active participant and feeling included in this, feeling invited into this endeavor, invited into this journey. And this is a place where we all deserve to be valued and respected and expected to really thrive. I mean, I just don't see how we're going to overcome the challenges that we experience right now in our health care environment and really on a global level at all, if we're not working hand in hand to overcome these challenges.

John Shufeldt:
Yeah, it's all very well said. Well, this has been, Terri, this has been a real pleasure. Where can people find out more about you?

Dr. Teresa Malcolm:
Sure. I again, John, thank you so much for this opportunity to connect with you and connect with your audience. And I would love it if your audience found me at MasterPhysicianLeaders, is my website. So that's MasterMDleaders.com. And I'm on LinkedIn under Theresa Malcolm. And my Instagram is @masterphysicianleaders. So I would love to connect with your audience and really encourage them, in particular, to go to the website because I do have a complimentary workbook on the six absolutes of successful leadership. So they're my thoughts. I'd love to hear any of your audience members that go through it and that they send me a note and share their thoughts and just would love to hear what their journey of physician leadership looks like and where they're going.

John Shufeldt:
Well, Terri, thank you so much. All that will be in our show notes, as well as links to the Master Physician, MasterMDleaders, and to your LinkedIn profile. So thank you very much. That's it for this episode of Entrepreneur RX everybody, I will see you next time.

John Shufeldt:
Thanks for listening to another great edition of Entrepreneur RX. To find out how to start a business and help secure your future. Go to JohnShufeldtMD.com. Thanks for listening.

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